moar tv? MOAR TV!

[slammerkinbabe]

I am at my parents' house. They have the latest issue of the Massachusetts Citizens for Life News ("A Strong Voice for the Most Fundamental Human Right"). I thought I would see if I could learn anything.

So far I have learned the following important facts:

• The term "abortion mills" seems to be passe. "Abortuary" is the new slang all the cool kids are using.
  
• The newest member of Massachusetts Citizens for Life is -28 weeks old, and her name is Angelica Maria. She is pictured in "4-D Ultrasound". 4-D? In the paper?
  
• If you know the definitions of the words "egg", "sperm", and "embryo", you are smarter than 5 of the 9 Supreme Court justices on the 1973 court.
  
• "The stem cell wars are over," and this is "a victory for President Bush." Because President Bush made the scientific discoveries that - according to the fine folk at MCFL, anyway - eliminated the need to use embryos to get stem cells. Or so we are left to assume.
  
• Although President Bush is a pitiful lame duck who is hated by over seventy percent of the country and the Iraq war is an unmitigated disaster, Democrats should be very worried about their party's fate at the presidential elections. This is due to the fact that recently Jim Ogonowski, the Republican candidate in the fifth congressional district election here in Massachusetts, lost the election with 45 percent to the Democratic candidate's 51 percent. The Democrats expected to win by more than that in that district, and got overconfident and came close to almost losing, sort of. So Clinton and Obama and them should think long and hard about Jim Ogonowski before they start assuming they can walk off with the election.
  
• Specifically, they should be afraid of Fred Thompson, who is the candidate that MCFL has chosen to back in the presidential race.
  
• There are 350 cemetery white wood crosses in a tote in a warehouse in Southbridge, and anyone who has a good idea for how to use them can contact MCFL for more information.
  
• Bella is the best movie ever in the world.

In one way I sort of feel like I shouldn't snark. My family takes their beliefs seriously and it's just easy snark and I'm not Thinking Hard about Hard Issues and blah blah blah. But on the other hand, I believe in nuanced discussion of abortion and the related issues, and that sure ain't it. And the Jim Ogonowski bit... and "abortuaries"? I'm sorry, that's hilarious.

IN OTHER NEWS.

Oh, dude, there's an episode of Golden Girls on whose episode description read "A lesbian falls for Rose." λ is a fan of the show and we had a MUST SEE moment, so we flipped over just in time to hear Estelle Getty saying:

"She likes girls. Big deal. Some people like girls instead of guys. Some people like dogs instead of cats. Personally, I'd rather live with a lesbian than a cat."

I've never watched a full episode of Golden Girls. I think I should start. Now.

Away I go.

Comments

[fanboy-of-zeus.livejournal.com]

"Personally, I'd rather live with a lesbian than a cat."

...You know, I don't think I know any lesbians who don't either have a cat or want a cat?

[/random thought]

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

Hold on, lemme think about it.

::counts up:: I am not at all sure that I can think of one either.

[justsurvive.livejournal.com]

wait. you can abort a 28 week old? holy fuck thats almost as old as leila was. please tell me thats a joke.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

No, no, negative twenty-eight weeks. So twelve gestational weeks.

[active-apathy.livejournal.com]

Well, that's interesting.

If they don't let "new members" join until after they have a face (or, allowing for processing time, until organogenesis) is this a tacit admission that zygotes and embryos, at least, aren't people?

[fanboy-of-zeus.livejournal.com]

That, or the more practical reason that they can't enroll a member who doesn't have a name, and you can't name the kid until you know if it's a girl or a boy (unless you choose to ignore gender entirely and either give the kid a gender-neutral name or risk ending up with a boy named Angelica Maria).

In other words, they still think she's a person before that, they just think she's a person that they'd have to put on the books as [insert name here].

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised the lists aren't full of Preborn Smiths and Preborn Joneses, though.

[jandyle.livejournal.com]

Could also just be that of their members the one that is most recently pregnant is 12 weeks along, thus that is the youngest member.

[active-apathy.livejournal.com]

That, or the more cynical reason that they can't show pictures and go "OMGLOOKALITTLEPERSON" if it's a centimetre-long spine with a blobby bit at one end.

Though the Martin(a) Jones thing does make sense too, and I'll just be over here in the corner with my dashed hopes.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

I definitely think your point has a lot to do with it. They were heavy on the X-treem closeups of the face, which were supposed to look cute and instead kind of looked like a regular baby's face was melting. You know, I'm cool with thinking of a fetus as a fetus, and I think of fetuses (feti?) as people to a far greater extent than any of my friends, just about - but I prefer to think of babies as babies, and fetuses as fetuses, so that I'm not all "OH MY GOD WHY IS ITS FACE MELTING?" That look is normal for a fetus. Not for a baby. No.

[active-apathy.livejournal.com]

Yes! That too.

It doesn't bother me at all that a foetus looks like someone's microwaved a doll (or, for that matter, that an embryo spends a lot of time looking like a seahorse tethered to a placenta), but please don't try to make it look cute.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

(Also, this fetus hasn't been/won't be aborted - she's a "new member" of MCFL and was spotlighted for that reason.)

[epilimnion.livejournal.com]

Well, until she's actually born, grows up, hopefully becomes wiser, and becomes a pro-choice feminist. One can always hope....

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I bet they didn't get the fetus's consent before enrolling it in their organization.

But then pro-life orgs don't tend to be too big on caring about whether females are consenting.

Random, lengthy soapbox, because I was charitable and left it out of the initial post

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

You know, they have a huge long "expose" on how Planned Parenthood knew about a statutory rape case and didn't report it to the authorities. The term "consent" got tossed around quite a bit there. And, you know, the idea that a girl who's fifteen and change is completely incapable of knowing her own mind and consenting to sex is a tricky one, a legalistic determination that exists mostly because we have to draw the line somewhere so that eight-year-olds aren't being coerced into saying yes and thinking they might mean it. But it sort of struck me, reading the article, that to my mind there's no problem there: a girl who's almost sixteen is very likely capable of consenting to sex, but she is *certainly* capable of consenting - or refusing to consent - to having her personal life dragged out into the open, having her boyfriend prosecuted, having her parents know all about her sex life, and having herself humiliated in court. I think that's the consent that Planned Parenthood is concerned about, and the folks at MCFL, at least the ones writing the newsletter... well, they stick pretty good to the "women don't know their own minds" thing. It reminded me of that politician, I don't even remember who it was, who said not too long ago that any woman who has an abortion must be crazy because you *can't* kill your child and think it's okay without being a brazen lunatic.

There's just... so much infantilization and disempowerment of women in the way they approach this stuff. For the record, I trust that Planned Parenthood staffers are trained to catch the signs of an abusive relationship (AFAIK such training is standard for that kind of work?) and can likely determine whether a fifteen-and-a-half-year-old was able to consent to sex, and whether a statutory rape should be reported. And, you know, even if a situation IS abusive, there are frequently more empowering ways of helping a girl to handle it and get out of it than filing a formal report and then forgetting about it. Nuance, damn it, and care for women. Why do people find them to be such hard concepts?

Re: Random, lengthy soapbox, because I was charitable and left it out of the initial post

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

You know, they have a huge long "expose" on how Planned Parenthood knew about a statutory rape case and didn't report it to the authorities.

Like their crisis pregnancy centers would have? shyeah. right. Not if they thought the girl would carry to term, they wouldn't.

This is one of those things where pro-life orgs deliberately don't want to look at the consequences of their policies for women's health. Obviously, if girls know (and they WILL) that PP is going to report them to the authorities, they won't seek medical care for PP. They won't seek medical care at all, in fact, if their privacy isn't protected.

Same story for kids who check into rehab or go for therapy or birth control. If their privacy is not protected they won't seek help.

It is funny, because while pro-life orgs may make some hay with their contributors by spreading the word that PP protects the privacy of its minor patients - PP's only going to become more popular thereby.


he idea that a girl who's fifteen and change is completely incapable of knowing her own mind and consenting to sex is a tricky one

To me, the issue is more one of power disparity. A minor is capable of consenting to sex play with age peers in most circumstances, and that's totally normal. The qualms, for me, come in when a minor is engaging in sex with a person who is significantly older - e.g. an adult. That adult, just by being an adult, has more capacity than a minor, and is capable of manipulating and pressuring and misleading the minor. There is a huge power disparity. In such a situation the child is incapable of giving a meaningful consent.


And, you know, even if a situation IS abusive, there are frequently more empowering ways of helping a girl to handle it and get out of it than filing a formal report and then forgetting about it.

Certainly there are much better ways of handling it than betraying the trust of the minor who came to you for medical help. Just proving once again to her that adults can't be trusted. I have seriously heard from minors on abortioninfo who are terrified of going to the doctor or talking to doctors because they think the doctor might tell their parents that they were pregnant/had an abortion. Countless girls have asked whether their parents will be able to find out. I have absolutely no doubt that if they were not assured that their privacy would be protected these girls would resort to dangerous illegal abortion.

As a parent I hope my children will always feel comfortable and able to turn to me when they need help. But if they don't, I would certainly choose for them to be able to seek care without my knowledge instead of for them to not seek care at all.


It reminded me of that politician, I don't even remember who it was, who said not too long ago that any woman who has an abortion must be crazy

I guess one out of every 3 women in the US is crazy. Myself included. I'll go get some underwear and put them on my head.

Re: Random, lengthy soapbox, because I was charitable and left it out of the initial post

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to clarify: I do by and large agree with what you say on the statutory rape issue, though I do have some friends who at sixteen or so were involved with people considerably older (say, 35) and count those as good, healthy experiences. It *really* depends on the sixteen-year-old though, and from all I know that's damn rare. In this particular case that PP didn't report, though, the guy was 17. I do not see this as a major problem in terms of capacity to consent.

It sort of reminds me though of this fifteen- or sixteen-year-old girl, I forget her exact age, who got married (in some state where young marriage was legal) to a man who was ten years older than she, but who was not-quite-mildly-retarded and who clearly presented, to everyone who knew him, as being significantly younger than he was. I suppose articles paint people the way they want to, but from the quotes from him and stuff, he did sound younger than his age, and he sounded genuinely sweet and genuinely confused about all this fuss, because he didn't see the age thing as an issue. Nor did his wife. The funny part is that I don't really see a sexual relationship in those circumstances to be particularly problematic, but I do see marriage between two people who both essentially have a mental age of fifteen as a possible mistake! But I think about that a lot in thinking about statutory rape laws. My brain is always niggling "by and large, yeah, the power disparity goes along with the age disparity, but then there's those cases that don't fit the mold..."

Re: Random, lengthy soapbox, because I was charitable and left it out of the initial post

[amyura.livejournal.com]

As a parent I hope my children will always feel comfortable and able to turn to me when they need help. But if they don't, I would certainly choose for them to be able to seek care without my knowledge instead of for them to not seek care at all.

A-fucking-men! That's really my only goal with my kids. That, and that they'll grow up to be nice people.

Right now my biggest concern is how I'll react if they turn out to be crazy right-wingers. Will they still feel comfortable coming to me and telling me that they joined MCFL?

Re: that politician

[peregrin8.livejournal.com]

...that any woman who has an abortion must be crazy because you *can't* kill your child and think it's okay without being a brazen lunatic.

That's awesome. I once contemplated writing a science fiction story based on the premise that all murderers (and many soldiers) were by definition insane and should be committed/rehabilitated rather than sentenced (but I decided it would be a really boring story). Politicians, though - the ones who declare the wars - they would definitely have been in the brazen lunatic category.

[jek-nine.livejournal.com]

I love The Golden Girls, and saw that episode today as well. I laughed out loud quite a bit.

[lietya.livejournal.com]

I heartily support them endorsing and backing Thompson. ;)

(They do know he's dropped out, right...?)

[jandyle.livejournal.com]

(They do know he's dropped out, right...?)

Pfft, you would be the one to jump in with "facts" to "spoil" their plan. Details, details...

[lietya.livejournal.com]

What spoiling? I was serious. Nothing would make me happier than if these whackjobs threw their support behind a candidate who isn't even running. :)

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

I think they might be a jinx. It's great because next they'll support Huckabee, and then he'll drop out. Eventually they'll run down all the fundies and we'll wind up with the sanest candidates the Republicans have to offer, which would be McCain and...

...someone? Hm.

[lietya.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing they're now behind Giuliani. :) He hasn't *officially* dropped out, but I just watched what was clearly a good-bye/wrap-up speech. Tomorrow, I bet.

I agree, watching them run down the fundies would be great! And hey, if it ends up being only McCain, I could live with that.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

They'll back McCain next. He's pro-life and always has been. He's got like a 100% pro-life voting record.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

Does Huckabee not? Maybe he doesn't, I don't know that much about his voting record on that issue. I just figured with him being such a strong fundie he'd do a lot of pontificating on the issue, but perhaps he doesn't put his money where his mouth is. They really seem to like people who pontificate, though, and who are fundies. So I 'unno.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

oh, huckabee totally does too. But Romney doesn't.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

Oh sure he does!!! His church told him it was okay to lie to us Massholes about being pro-choice because it was the only way this evil liberal state would ever elect him. But he's pro-life!!!! RLY.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

They sure do not know that if that article is any indication. I'm sure they just sent it to press before he dropped out. But what's really funny is that I *think* they backed Brownback in their last issue, judging by the editorial they wrote about his departure from the race in this one. They sure know how to pick 'em.

[lietya.livejournal.com]

Wow, they really do have a knack. It's like the recommendation kiss of death!

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

I can't wait to use abortuary in a sentence. Yay for new words.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty scared of Fred Thompson.

Also, I find something incredibly ghoulish about the idea of a group making a 12-week fetus one of their members. It's like they're flopping the tiny weird-looking thing around, "speaking" for it in a high-pitched, squeaky voice as it twiches spasmodically.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

That impression is absolutely reinforced by the ultrasound shots. They're trying so hard to make it look like a fully grown baby, like these are the standard cutesy baby photos. It looks like a fully grown baby died a slow and painful death of radiation poisoning.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I probably should not lol at that.

We brought Isaac to my recent 20 week ultrasound. He was very unimpressed.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

(by the way, I keep having to clarify this so as not to sound like a bitch: I do not at all think fetuses are gross, but it weirds my shit out when people start playacting like they're *not* only partially developed. I cannot conceive of those pictures as baby pictures, and the harder they try to make me the more I get weirded out.)

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I think fetuses look weird, kinda alienesque. NOT like babies. I mean, it's natural for them to look that way, but it's also natural for me not to want to snuggle something that looks like that.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

1. Specifically, they should be afraid of Fred Thompson, who is the candidate that MCFL has chosen to back in the presidential race.

Yeah, I LOL'd.

2. You really should watch Golden Girls. You remind me a lot of my sister Chrissy and it's one of her favorite shows EVAR.

3. While I do think Clinton needs to worry about winning the general election, especially if she faces McCain (who's got that crazy crossover appeal)....um, not in MASSACHUSETTS. The question isn't whether a Dem will win here but by how much.

[tigermilkdrunk.livejournal.com]

Really, you should just start watching the videos on Godtube.com. I tried, but got so annoyed/upset/beside myself with laughter that I couldn't think of anything worth writing about them.

[ftmichael.livejournal.com]

Golden Girls is amazing and fucking hilarious. While you're watching, it may amuse you to know that Betty White, who plays Rose, originally auditioned for the part of Blanche. Try picturing that. Also, Estelle Getty is the youngest member of the regular cast.

My parents liked Golden Girls so I've been a fan more or less since infancy, but when I was little I was afraid of Bea Arthur, who plays Dorothy. She's tall and imposing-looking, with a strong deep voice, and I didn't know any women like that so she scared me. Didn't stop me watching the show, though, and now I love Bea Arthur. She's a riot.